Help us make the Firewalla Gold 10Gbit Unit
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@firewalla
My ISP and others delivers fiber and provides a fiber converter to rj45. They are also starting to deploying new CPE's/routers with built-in sfp+ eliminating the converter and make it more futureproof.
Before my Firewalla Gold. I used a Ubiquiti UDM-Pro and directly connecting the fiber using the sfp+ for wan.
My Firewalla Gold not having sfp+ is really my only downside today of using fwg.
Going forward - having a Firewalla supporting sfp+ for WAN and sfp+ for LAN would be amazing. I do get that this will not be for everyone, but maybe having a combo port is something to consider? -
Christer Tysdal
5 minutes ago
@firewalla
My ISP and others delivers fiber and provides a fiber converter to rj45. They are also starting to deploying new CPE's/routers with built-in sfp+ eliminating the converter and make it more futureproof.
Before my Firewalla Gold. I used a Ubiquiti UDM-Pro and directly connecting the fiber using the sfp+ for wan.
My Firewalla Gold not having sfp+ is really my only downside today of using fwg.Going forward - having a Firewalla supporting sfp+ for WAN and sfp+ for LAN would be amazing. I do get that this will not be for everyone, but maybe having a combo port is something to consider?
I guess we could sum it up as:
- Anything truly enterprise -> SFP+
- SMB -> SFP+ but for sure some on RJ45
- Consumers -> RJ45 and in some countries ongoing migration to optics
I have a flat in Milan and Amsterdam, both Vodafone (respectively Italy and Ziggo), and in both, the CPE (the routers) have 1GbE interfaces for client downstream access.
Now @firewalla you guys need to figure out who is the target for a Firewalla 10G option. Is that solely this community? Is that the consumer market? the SMB one? A mix of all? You could have two 10Gbps options: a more traditional RJ45 and a SFP+ one. To further improve your biz, you could even sell branded and QAed Firewalla optics. If you think about the NIC market, some years ago, it was common to offer the same chipset in RJ45 and SFP+ format
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@chester
Very similar situation@everyone / @firewalla - Strikes me as funny that we are talking about consumer and 10g in the same sentence.
maybe understanding who the buyers in the short term … and long term are is important
10g is about enthusiasts today who are v interested in future proofing their investment (time not just money)
I have no interest in buying yet another router in three years time just because I now have 10g lan.
Despite owning three other firewalla products - i purposely didn’t buy the fwg+ because I knew my network upgrade (lan side) would be from 1g to 10g
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Update: not great, but we are working on it.
- The initial pricing coming back from our hardware vendor is less than ideal. The initial pricing doesn't allow us to sell the unit for less than $1000 for RJ45 (the cheaper one). (SFP version likely even more expensive)
- The price increase is related to memory + storage + a few other little things
- Shipping costs due to issues near the Red Sea (which for some reason is impacting everyone else)
- People are speculating there will be higher import duties after the US election ...
We don't want to push this unit to 2025, so our management team will work hard to work with our vendor/s. (yes, including taking Aliexpress units to our vendor ...)
PS. We really want the 10Gbit to happen ...
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@ronald, there is no way we can get all 4xSFP+; that means the CPU has to handle 20gbit of traffic; you are looking at 1500 to 2000 dollars. I don't think our customers (the majority) are ready for that.
Our goal is to get the final price under 1000 USD. And as of this morning, it is not possible.
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@firewalla I understand you guys already settled down for 4 ports, two 10Gbps and two 2.5Gbps, but would removing the two extra 2.5GbE reduce cost? Also, leaving aside AliExpress stuff, how can Ubiquity delivery 4x 10GbE sub 400$ with USW-FLEX-XG? Indeed this is not IDS/IPS and is underpowered but there is clearly a massive gap. Same goes for qnap, a non network vendor, with the QHora-322..
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Oh dear Firewalla, I wonder if you're mixing up SFP+ with QSFP. I like my Firewalla Gold+ as an all-in-one package, although I had to add some extra cooling. But checking at Mouser learns, to me, that SFP+ modules are cheaper than 10GbE and need far less cooling. So where comes the $1000, extra from?
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We work with ODM, and they give us a quote based on our requirements. Unfortunately, we do not see the part pricing;
What I know is that the SFP+ physical ports are not expensive; the expensive part is the MAC that drives that interface. Since we are doing 10gbit, not all MACs can be used, so there are restrictions with heat, speed, Linux drivers, and size of the board ... So, making a board has huge constraints ... especially since we are working towards something that's less than 1000 dollars. (At the moment, even that seem to be not possible, but we are getting close as of 10 min ago) remember we have to make money too, software going into these systems are NOT free, they come from hard working developers
We can't use ARM processors either; they are less powerful than x86/Intel processors. Pretty much every ARM processor-based suggestion here, including USG/QHora/Netgear, are all Quad Core ARM processors, the same processor class running on the Gold SE. ($449) These units are pretty good at routing/switching, but not good at inspecting traffic at 10Gbit speed. Your firewalla need this inspection to work.
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I registered interest on announcement and just wanted to say I am fine with 4xRJ45 and $1K
I can see it why people would want SFP+ though, I have a Unifi Enterprise 8 PoE with SFP+ and would use for LAN but the WAN 'Modem' where I am will always be via NTD/ONT hand off with Ethernet.
I would pay more if there was model with 4xRJ45 and SFP+ though!
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@1980cyber.
If you are doing VLAN-based network segmentation on the same LAN port, the performance will be 9.3 Gigabit. Here, you can have one VLAN going into the box and go out the same interface on a different VLAN, after filtering/rules. This is something handy if you have a VLAN-based network and heavy east/west traffic.
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@firewalla I don’t think PoE is needed. I also don’t think WiFi is needed in the box. People say they want the god or uber box all the time just like Cisco ISR’s but as we know that creates a lot of complexity, support issues, and increased price. My preference would be to make a better version of Firewalla with enough CPU/RAM/Storage headroom to take full advantage of 10Gig links as software stack continues to mature and add features. Thank you for all you all are doing! (I own multiple Firewallas plus have convinced friends to buy them). Great products!
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Our partners in Asia are all on the Chinese/Lunar New Year break. They will likely get back to us by the end of February. They did promise if we pay them early, they can guarantee the first batch price to be good, and the later units may be higher than our limit of $1k ... If we accept this, it is very likely pre-orders will get a discount and a gamble for future units as TBD. We are still studying the economics of this.
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What is the CPU in this unit? I didn't see that posted anywhere - unless I missed it. Is it Intel ? if yes, what CPU model?
Also is the MAC +PHY all Intel based, as it is on the Gold plus? If yes, which one?
Would be nice to have an all Intel based unit like the Gold plus.
Is there a wall mount option for this unit?
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It will be Intel-based with a CPU at least 2x faster than the Gold Plus Unit. using the same image as the Gold Plus.
We usually don't disclose exact parts details.
The unit is fairly large, so wall mounting will not work. But it will be rack mountable. (the little ears will likely be sold separately)
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Get it right the first time, don't rush it.
Wifi 7 / 10G is just getting started, my understanding is that Wifi 7 is not fully certified yet, should happen this year, so it probably won't take off for another year or so until we see more hardware options. I was looking for a Wifi 7 card upgrade my PC, the choice is still extremely limited, nothing USB-C compatible available yet either. -
@geotrouvetout67 WiFi 7 was certified early last month. Lots of WiFi APs/routers are already on the market. Client devices will be a slower uptake I think. WiFi 7 also has a high price premium right now for quality gear. But that's not too relevant to Firewalla routers, and they should most certainly not have WiFi onboard.
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