Preferred AP
I have been using two AP7D units. What I have found is that an IOT device will connect to the AP furthest from it and on the lowest band. It would be nice to be able to bind a specific device to a specific AP. Is there any way to accomplish this?
-
If they do implement binding to a specific AP, they also need to program a backup scenario for when the preferred/bound AP is not available. In that case, the IOT device would connect to the furthest AP on the lowest band until the preferred AP becomes available. There should be a controllable retry configuration that attempts to re-connect to the preferred/bound AP every so many seconds until a connection is made. This should be within the band steering mechanism/code.
-
I asked about this on reddit when I got the AP7Cs, along with broadcasting SSIDs on only certain APs, and IIRC both were deferred as "This isn't how a mesh works". All I can say is, that to get my AP7D+2xAP7C setup to grudgingly work the way I want I have to dial the power down for all bands to the minimum on both Cs as most of my devices I care about bandwidth are closest to the D.
I've opened multiple tickets but the troubleshooting seems mostly to be: turn off DFS, turn off band steering, put the powers back at default. Even in the down powered state, if I walk into my kitchen (one floor up from one of the Cs) I drop connection at the handoff, get back on wifi by cycling, then I am stuck to 2.4Ghz on the basement C even when 5 feet from the D.
I had an Orbi Pro setup with three satellites (one outdoor) and never had any issues like this. I even beta tested another mesh setup and didn't have any issues dropping WiFi, losing DHCP, getting stuck on remote APs or slower bands.
With a FWG+, AP7D and two AP7Cs I am bought into the infrastructure; hopefully things smooth out down the road. While I was waiting for the Cs to come out everything worked *great* with the only the D. The literal second I set up one of the Cs my network started acting nuts (and my family started complaining) so I took a long time to even bother getting the second one set up indoors.
-
Most of the time, the decision to connect to which AP is a function of the device itself. AP's can optimize a bit, but all they can do is suggest, and the final decision is still the device itself. Given not all clients are perfectly implemented, we are going to implement a function to "reject" a device from connecting to certain AP's. (as preferred is much more difficult to implement) in app 1.66.1 release.
-
I don’t want my devices to choose which AP to connect to. If I have an IOT that operates on 5 GHz… Why does it choose the furthest AP and connect 2.4 GHz? I came from an Asus mesh system and it had the ability to bind a MAC address to a specific AP. I will give you an example of why this is a problem in my particular case. I have Eufy camera system. They operate on 5 GHz. Instead of connecting to the closest AP at 5 GHz, they connect to the furthest AP at 2.4 GHz. When I review the videos later, there is skipping and stuttering in the video because the throughput is not fast enough to stream the information to the homebase. This is why I want the ability to force a stationary IOT device to connect to a specific access point. I am almost to the point of hooking up my old Asus system so that I can have that control back, but then I will lose a lot of functionality and features and control that I have gained with my firewalla APs
for whatever reason, the 5 GHz Eufy camera will not connect to the AP that is 20 feet away. That will give it 5 GHz connectivity. Instead, it will connect to the AP that is 60 feet away from it at 2.4 GHz because the 2.4 GHz bands can penetrate walls and structure better than the 5 GHz band Some days I feel like all I do is click on optimize the entire network the entire day
-
I had an Asus mesh system before I switched over to Firewalla too. For me, although the Asus system had the ability to bind a device to a particular AP I didn't find it worked all the time either. I think the issue is, like mentioned earlier, the devices make the decision. The AP can influence but it can't force a device to make a particular decision.
-
Firewalla: we are going to implement a function to "reject" a device from connecting to certain AP's. (as preferred is much more difficult to implement) in app 1.66.1 release.
This solution will work for stationary IOT devices. However, devices that can be moved around like laptops and phones will still experience the same problems.
The reject proposal will be fine in the interim, because I will have far less devices that I have to fidget with, but I would really like to request that Firewalla work on the preferred AP solution for the long term. I also have to go into my phone settings and disable Wi-Fi too often in order to get it to stop connecting with the most distant AP and connect with one closest to me because I have moved to that room
-
Adam, I am going to try to dial down the power of the 2.4 GHz band instead of leaving it on auto. Since 2.4 GHz signals can penetrate walls and structure more easily, it seems to be the signal that my devices want to connect to even when it’s the furthest AP. I will see if that helps and report back.
-
An example: Currently I'm in my dining room sitting under and AP7C. I had to reboot my work computer and when it reconnected, it connected to an AP7C in the garage (two rooms away). The signal strength in windows for the AP7C in the garage was the little dot at the bottom of the wifi signal. On the windows machine I turned off wifi and then turned it back on. It then reconnected to the APC7 right above me.
I'm not complaining, just providing another data point.
-
Still experimenting with the power levels… I lowered the power of the 2.4 GHz band down to 12 and I set the power of the 5 GHz band up to maximum. Still observing how it behaves.
To Firewalla’s point… the clients choose where to connect. Take for example the Apple TV 4K generation 3. Will it choose a 2.4 GHz, -65DBM signal from the furthest AP over a 5 GHz, -73 DBM signal from the closest AP. The answer is it will choose the 2.4 GHz. Is this an Apple problem? I don’t know.
Perhaps I just never noticed the problem with the previous Asus mesh system because I could bind the Mac to a specific AP, but in a free-for-all system, it definitely seems random and chaotic. Even when a client connects to the closest AP, the band steering seems to move it to the furthest one for whatever reason.
I will do the Wi-Fi optimize and make sure that a specific IOT device connects to the closest AP. Then I will go back later and check again and it’s hopped over to the furthest AP on its own even though it is a stationary device
yeah, just confirmed with my iPhone 16 Pro Max… It was on the closest AP 5 GHz with a -69DBM signal strength. For no reason whatsoever, it just popped over to the furthest AP 5 GHz band which has a -73 DBM signal strength. Perhaps band steering is a little bit too sensitive?
-
It's a Thinkpad T14. I don't think you need to open up a case right now. I'll experiment and see what's going on. I would rather find something that is reproducible before you open a ticket.
For what it's worth I had a Netgear setup (WAX630) and it was horrible about this with most devices. I assume this was the problem because I could never figure out what APs I was connected with. -
I was able to solve this issue. After the initial setup, it was not sending traffic to the closest (of two AP7s). I noticed the network behaving weird too. To get around this, I set all my settings the way I wanted them, with signal strength to automatic.
Then, I factory reset both AP7s and after they came back online (one at a time), it asked if i wanted to apply the settings in one go. It's working great after that.
I have a feeling that, when you configure many settings too fast, it corrupts something. Go slow.
-
Please see app 1.67, there is a new function to exclude devices from https://help.firewalla.com/hc/en-us/articles/46268264617363-Firewalla-App-Release-1-67-Enterprise-Wi-Fi-and-RADIUS-Bridge-Mode-Support-for-AP7-Limited-Mobile-App-Access-and-more#h_01K9FXNMQXT1NRCNA3V7QDQWWR
-
I would recommend not using exclusions to force a client to connect to closer AP. There are some instances where the supplicant doesn't like multiple BSSIDs on a SSID and will either refuse to connect or go with the lowest BSSID regardless of power level. Some devices, like iPhones, are weighted to prefer 5GHz over 2.4 even when at a lower power level while others won't connect if the signal is too strong.
Looking at Douglas's example of a device taking a -65dBm 2.4GHz signal from a further AP over a -73dBm 5GHz signal from a closer AP makes total sense. My course of action would be to figure out why both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz signals from the closer AP are so bad (e.g., placement or orientation of the device, AP or both). If you can look at the RSSI/SNR through the client, you'll have a much better understanding of why they're not connecting to the closer AP.
I haven't run the AP7c through all the paces yet. There are some things I'm seeing that I don't like that may explain some of these behaviors. I need to make a set of floor plans for the house for my testing and I just haven't had the time.
-
… I’m just waiting for the full release of 1.67. I am worried about the reject AP solution because if I need to reboot one of the APs for any reason, than the devices that connect to, it will be completely off-line until the reboot is complete. A preferred AP solution allows for a devised to connect to a further AP while the closest one reboots. While I cannot see the code, I would love to know the rules and criteria that band steering uses.
-
Despite what you read online, there's not a lot to band-steering. It's not an AP making an effort to distribute clients evenly between 2.4 and 5GHz. It's meant to give 5GHz preference and it does not care if the signal strength on 2.4GHz is stronger or if the client has a stronger signal from another AP. When enabled, an AP will stop advertising the SSID in the 2.4GHz beacons. It will respond on 2.4GHz only if a 5GHz probe request is not heard from the same client. Since this only works with active-scan clients, passive-scan only 2.4GHz clients will not connect. If you enable band-steering and have clients not connecting, turning off band-steering usually resolves.
-
John - I went back and looked at your posts. At this point it's probably a two-fold issue with a misbehaving supplicant and APs that with too high Tx settings. First thing I'd do is make sure other devices are connecting to the AP directly above you on the same WLAN, then I'd use something like inSSIDer to see the RSSI and SNR levels from both of your APs. If you're directly under the AP, I'd expect to be in the -30s dBm which may be too loud for some devices. You may be better off putting your AP in a closet or on the other side of a wall, but if you're seeing -65 or stronger from your other AP, you need to turn them down.
The "choice" is made by the client.
-
"I am worried about the reject AP solution because if I need to reboot one of the APs for any reason, than the devices that connect to, it will be completely off-line until the reboot is complete."
IIRC on reddit they indicated that this is not the case; that the exclusion only holds if there is another allowed AP for the client to connect to. I've not actually tried rebooting my APs once I set some exclusions however.
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
25 comments