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44 comments

  • Avatar
    Andre

    At least 16 managed ports with possibility to create multiple Virtual Lanest, 2 10G, rest 2.5G, at least half ports POE++(better all), please make POE to be turned On/Off I use this function almost daily 

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    KenDMV

    A critical "feature" not mentioned is the ability to operate without sounding like a vacuum cleaner.

    Some existing POE switches have great functionality but generate 60-70dB of noise.  They sound very much like vacuum cleaners.  It is as if the manufacturer designed these switches be placed in some cabinet in a basement datacenter far away from any people.

    Since I'm assuming this is a prosumer switch, which will go into people's homes, including in closets adjacent to offices, living rooms, and bedrooms, noise levels need to be calibrated accordingly.  Ideally, the unit would be silent or close to it.  This may impact design decisions related to form factor or features.

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    mikehuxley

    I agree, 16 ports, 2.5gb ports, maybe 1 or 2 10gb ports to allow for WiFi 7 and the gold pro. I feel if you go with more 10gb ports it will get too expensive to buy and manufacture.

    As far as POE goes. I would say half too. Depends where your market is home soho or office. If soho, like my situation, I don't think you need 16 POE ports!

    Also I'm thinking of cost for buying the Pro, your AP and your switch. It has to be affordable as otherwise, what's the point

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    Derek Seaman

    At a minimum copy the TP-Link TL-SX3206HPP switch. It supports 4x PoE++ (40w) at 10G (think WiFi 7), and 2 more 10G for Uplink/LAG.  It would also be nice to have another 4-8x 2.5G ports too. 

     

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    M

    My personal hope would be a tight integration between the switch and firewall through the app. So when you set up a VLAN it would automatically propagate out to all attached switches and AP. You would still likely have to assign a VLAN to a switch port to make devices down it automatically connect to that VLAN, but the actual defining of the VLAN ID and name would hopefully propagate out to the devices on the network making set up easier. Right now when you have different vendors you must define the VLANs on each device individually and make the IDs match.

    Perhaps even create Security Group Tagging feature like Cisco has and allow its use across the firewall and switches? SGTs are a lot like VLANs and rules, but you can apply a security rule to a group of devices and not to others on the same VLAN. Where a VLAN is assigned to a switch port, Security Group Tags are assigned to devices. Sort of the same thing but a different way to go about things, and useful for wifi connecting clients that are all connecting on the same AP and SSID. SGTs are used to represent a logical device group instead of a physical device group. And if you assign a device to an SGT, if you then connect it from one switch on one side of the house you another switch on the other side it would still be apart of the same security group and those rule policies still apply to it.

    Maybe apply a QoS scheme across the whole network and not just on the firewall for traffic going through it?

    Or what if it is an L3 switch, and they make ACL rules available so you can make them in the app but you can make an ACL exactly like a firewall rule and apply them all in the same place on the app but it uses those ACLs on the switch automatically? ACL rules for VLANs are much faster than a firewall rule is so performance is higher.

     

    Or something really crazy that I don't think anyone does yet: What if you could integrate the switches into the app and firewall in a way that you could set up port mirroring, but instead of mirroring traffic to a physical port on the switch it could create a virtual port in the firewall that gets all the mirrored traffic and then you could log all of the traffic via wireshark directly on the firewall? That way you dont have to use a real physical port anywhere or divert traffic to a device for doing some logs like that.

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  • Avatar
    Veli Pekka Nousiainen

    @M
    The automation and integration SBD everything from the same company with excellent customer support and a good community is going to win with the synergy value that it brings.

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    Andre

    Without tide integration between firewall, switch and access points is no point to buy Firewalla switch and access point.

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    Gavin

    I am going to propose a minimum of 3 - 10Gb ports.

    A "mesh" wifi can have a router and two satellites. (Sure, can there be more satellites, but we are talking largely a "home" user base and I wonder how many homes have more than 3 access points.)

    Hence 10G from the ISP to the Firewalla. 10G from Firewalla to the wifi router (in access point mode). We would then need 10G from the wifi router (again in access point mode) to this new switch. Finally we would need an additional 2- 10G ports on this new switch to go to each of the satellites. Hence, a need for at minimum 3 - 10G ports.

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    Troy Barwick

    16 ports 2.5gbe, 1/2 of them POE+, rack mountable.

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    Veli Pekka Nousiainen

    2 x 10G, 6xPoE, 6xE, power brick 110V/230V

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  • Avatar
    M

    I think there should be 2 switches, one 8 port the size of the firewalla Gold Pro so it can be stacked on/under the firewall, and another 16 or 24 port for rack mounting for those that rack their firewalla.

    Both products should have half the ports be poe+.

    The 8 port should have 8 RJ45 ports and have 4-6 be 2.5gb ports and 2-4 10gb ports, with an additional 2 sfp+ 10gb ports to the side of the main RJ45 ports. At least two of the 10gb RJ45s need to be poe+ capable, along with a group of the 2.5gb ports being poe+ capable. This 8 port switch should have a 120 watt poe power supply in it. If it is an all 2.5gb, a pair of 10gb ports plus poe managed switch then the price should be around $250-300. If it doesn't have poe and looses the 10gb ports then price should be around $90-100 since that is the price of the same switches from China you will be competing against.

    The 16-24 port switch should have 4 10gb RJ45 poe+ ports, and 8 2.5gb poe+ ports. The rest should be either 2.5gb or some 10gb non-poe ports. It should also have 2 sfp+ 10gb ports on the far side. This rackmount switch should have a 300 watt poe power supply. If this has the 10gb RJ45, 2.5gb RJ ports, as well as the poe and L3, then this could be priced around $450 to compete with the competitions offerings. If this looses the 10gb RJ45 ports but keeps the other stuff including L3, maybe around $350.

    Typically switches now days list port count by how many RJ45 they have, and do not include the extra sfp ports included in the port count, and either include two 1gb SFP or two 10gb SFP+ ports for switch uplink

    Down the road, once you have recouped investments into the initial switches, you can release a 3rd switch that is 24 port and all 10gb RJ45, with sfp28 ports on the side for the really high end networks. This one should have 8 ports of PoE+ and 4 ports of PoE++ and a 500w power supply.

     

    The larger rack switch should be an L3 switch capable of handling vlan routing. The smaller stackable 8 port switch would be nice if it had L3, but Im fine if it is just L2

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    Andrew Mitchell

    I love the idea of one stackable one rack mountable. That being said I personally have no use for either POE or 16 or 24 port versions. Likewise all I need is 10 gigabit ports, but I won’t say no to SFP+ for future proofing.

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  • Avatar
    Veli Pekka Nousiainen

    I think I could settle for 2x10G+ (4x2.5G PoE+4x2.5G E)
    <500USD

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    KenDMV

    Take a look at whatever chipset is in the new Zyxel XMG1915 series switches. The Zyxel XMG1915 series consists of fanless 2.5gbps POE++ and non-POE switches with 10gbps uplinks that use 25% to 50% of the power consumption per port of the Ubiquiti and TP-Link Omada switches.

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    Mark9

    For segmentation of networks when VLAN's aren't available on Wi-Fi (eero, etc) when trying to deal with IoT, I would like to see:

    - Static MAC-based VLAN assignment

    - ACL's for MAC addresses on ports

    - Port Isolation.  TP-Link example:
    https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/525/

    FYI, newer TP-Link DECO's are getting "Isolated Device" features to assist with IoT support in the absence of VLAN's:
    https://community.tp-link.com/us/home/kb/detail/412694

    P.S. You might make some eero owners happy if you group certain features together for configuration that interfere with TrueMesh and must therefore be disabled in-between eeros; VLANs, anything that might add DSCP/ToS tags, loop avoidance, all forms of STP and all loop prevention features.

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    Chester B Weber

    Gotta be rack mountable, managed, PoE++, and 10GbE. I’ll let y’all figure out the number of ports you can effectively power/cool. 2 Sfp+ port for uplink/down link to other switches would be nice.

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  • Avatar
    Bryce

    For an 8 port switch 2 x 1gb, 4 x 2.5gb, and 4 x 10gb ports, with an additional 2 sfp+ 10gb ports. 

    All ports and status lights are in the front and power is in the back for a mountable solution, please.

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  • Avatar
    Andre

    At least 12 POE ports mandatory for all existing ports with option to cut off POE individuality for each port (very important for me), at least 4 10G ports for connecting to Firewalla and another switch plus to a NAS and to one computer, remaining ports can be up to whatever you want

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  • Avatar
    Veli Pekka Nousiainen

    @firewalla @bryce
    I agree, but how much money and power would this take?
    Is it in your plans at all?
    Can you make a lite version, too?

    "Bryce
    2 days ago
    For an 8 port switch 2 x 1gb, 4 x 2.5gb, and 4 x 10gb ports, with an additional 2 sfp+ 10gb ports.

    All ports and status lights are in the front and power is in the back for a mountable solution, please."

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    Firewalla

    As the number of ports (and PoE) grows, the cost goes up a lot ... 

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  • Avatar
    Andre

    Firewalla
    Ok just tel us how much 16 managed ports, half POE++, 2x10G and 14x2,5G will cost…

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    Robert Kobbeman

    All of my switches are TRENDnet, and they work awesome. But to give some insight on cost, the TPE-3102WS is $350. That is a managed. POE+ switch with eight 2.5g RJ45 and two 10g SFP+ ports. What you are asking about is basically double that. So the cost would be a lot I would bet.

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    Andre

    Not double, for all 16 ports you’ll need just one power supply, just 2x10G POE, just 6x2,5G POE ports, just one body case. All of that are the most expensive parts and make the main cost, all I ask is to add on top of that 8 more, not so expensive 2,5G non POE ports, which no need more power just a bit more space, but honestly you can fit all of that in a case similar to Firewala Gold Pro.
    Will be duble only if you’ll have to buy two 8 POE port Switches each with its own power supply, each with their own 2x10G very expensive ports and so on.
    So no, I think it’s not double of that at all maybe 150$ more at max…

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  • Avatar
    Firewalla

    @Andre, sorry, I read it wrong then. I don't think $150 extra will work either, if you want every port to deliver PoE. And very likely the 16 port will be a 1U unit. 

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  • Avatar
    KenDMV

    I also like the prior suggestion with 10G POE++ and SFP tweaks:

    2x 10G POE++
    6x 2.5G POE+
    8x 2.5G non-POE
    2x 10G SFP (or 2x 10G non-POE)

    High-powered WiFi 7 (and later) 4x4 access points will likely be the only common use cases for POE++. I’m not aware of any newer 2.5G POE++ devices.

    I like the idea of keeping the number of POE+ and POE++ ports to 8 or fewer, recognizing that those ports generate significant heat and consume a lot of power, and thus the need for more and faster (and noisier) fans.

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  • Avatar
    M

    Most PoE switches also do not provide enough power to run every switch at full power. For instance you see something like an 8 port PoE+ switch with 150-200w of power (or sometimes even far less). That would mean 8 ports at 30 watts should be 240w power supply for them. But since nearly every device that says it needs Poe+ often runs closer to 10-15w most of the time and only bursts up higher draw when under heavier load then the switches don't necessarily need to be able to provide a continuous 240w.

    So in designing this you should decide if you want to sell this in a manner the rest of the industry has adopted and say something like "8 PoE+ (150w maximum)" or if you want to build so it can do it all continuous and have to also charge a premium for a higher spec unit than most other companies sell.

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  • Avatar
    Veli Pekka Nousiainen

    I think a full power brick with variable speed fan will do the trick.
    Rarely would it vacuum clean your selves.
    I think I will put the FireWalla WiFi 7 on the top self, Hold Pro then, and any switch at ny easy reach.
    Note
    I would so very much like a small touch screen to control all the stuff without a laptop.

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    KenDMV

    The only way this product makes sense is if it can be seamlessly managed from a FW router.

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    M

    @Firewalla

    Look up the video "First Look! UniFi Pro Max 16 PoE Switch" on Youtube. This will be one of your main competitors that just came out. Obviously yours wont have Etherlighting, but it is 16 port, with 4 ports of 2.5gb, and PoE+ and Poe++, as well as 2x 10gb SFP+ for a price of $399. You will likely have to at the very least match this spec and pricing to get people wanting to buy it. I feel like if you know you cant hit this price point and feature level for ports then it probably isnt even worth doing since there is so much in the switch space already for cheap with 2.5gb ports.

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    oobedoobe

    I do like the idea of an 8 port that could fit in a half 1u to share with the gold/gold pro.
    16 and 24 port models would be awesome. With at least half the ports supporting PoE, maybe at least 4 on PoE +. Definitely would want to see at least 4 ports on 2.5gb. with 10gb ports for uplink. 2x 10gb for up and down links would be sweet. I'd love to see a 8 port all 10gb model to use for aggregation or on by homelab rack. On a aggregation switch sfp ports would be preferable to rj45.

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